Spawnpoints, Performance and Zombies

G

Grafzahl

Valued Member!
I reeeealy love Sahrani, i think its one of the greatest maps to build on. After some days of testing, i have some feedback from my side:
  • PsiSyndicate said once in a video, that the spawnpoints are one of the most important parts when it comes to top or flop of a dayz-map, and he is right. I love the terrain of sahrani, but spawning like 10 running-minutes away from the next lootable buildings is just boring. All of my players constantly say that they spawn somewhere in the desert and they cant even kill themself because there are no buildings that could spawn zombies. If you are a feshspawn, it takes you sometimes up to 2 hours to collect some basic toolbelt-items. Think of a clanfight, a member of your clan dies, and he can instantly disconnect, because it will take him like forever to get back to you because hes somewhere in the desert, no vehicles nearby, no orientation.

    I would recommend to select spawnpoints near lootables cities, so if you join in, you have a plan where to go and what to get. I know, spawning in nowhere is more "survival", but the players just switch to another mod if the spawnpoints are sh*tty.
  • Performance... when driving through towns, my fps switch to something around 10, on open fields i have like 40-50, back in the "closed" tests, i hadnt this issue, so i think it related to the zombie-spawning, i dont have any numbers yet, but for me it looks like iam spawning nearly 100 zeds when driving into bagango... this is where it comes to my last point:
  • To many Zeds: I dont know why, but in the last mods i tested, i had the feeling that the creators thought something like "Yeah, lets spawn 1000 zombies for each player so its more difficult". I think if you want to make the zeds more dangerous again, let them make more damage, or a higher chance for knockouts (like in dayz+).... for me it makes no difference if there are 20 or 100 zeds around, but zeds leech performance... and i hate it when you get stuck in a barack even with 1000 shots, only because there are spawning hundret of zeds in, again and again.
Just my 2 cents :)
 
I've played Saharani myself recently and it is an exceptionally beautiful map. However I also think zombies should be looked at, specifically their hearing and sight sensitivity. If I fire an M1911 or STANAG weapon, I'm in for the fight of a lifetime as every zombie in a 200m+ radius converges on my position. I know zombies are supposed to pose a threat, but in my opinion their current sensitivity is at ludicrous levels.
 
Grafzahl said:
I reeeealy love Sahrani, i think its one of the greatest maps to build on. After some days of testing, i have some feedback from my side:
  • PsiSyndicate said once in a video, that the spawnpoints are one of the most important parts when it comes to top or flop of a dayz-map, and he is right. I love the terrain of sahrani, but spawning like 10 running-minutes away from the next lootable buildings is just boring. All of my players constantly say that they spawn somewhere in the desert and they cant even kill themself because there are no buildings that could spawn zombies. If you are a feshspawn, it takes you sometimes up to 2 hours to collect some basic toolbelt-items. Think of a clanfight, a member of your clan dies, and he can instantly disconnect, because it will take him like forever to get back to you because hes somewhere in the desert, no vehicles nearby, no orientation.

    I would recommend to select spawnpoints near lootables cities, so if you join in, you have a plan where to go and what to get. I know, spawning in nowhere is more "survival", but the players just switch to another mod if the spawnpoints are sh*tty.
Click to expand...
The spawns are being totally reworked. However
1. We don't want people to be able to kill themselves when they get a "bad spawn"
2. None of the spawns are more than a 2 min run to a building that spawns zombies
3. running is the cause for literally EVERY complaint. This is not a running simulator anymore running is dangerous if there are zeds around.
4. Why should you be able to quickly run to your friends or to a car EVERY TIME you spawn? Are you serious? I don't even know how to respond to that. We are shaping our mod after a MORE hardcore version of the Official Mod, Show me a video of someone kitting out and getting a car fast on a public hive chernarus server. This is not Breaking Point, or Wasteland. If you want a clan battle server, take the time to set one up... even We're not going to cater to people respawning over and over to be a 10min jog to their friends.. it's too big a map, what if you're fighting in the far north?

Also for loot, the reason people aren't finding things is because they are running around and not checking EVERY building EVERY time... there are TONS of loot positions, there is just a low probability for it to spawn.. SO a building may look like it has no loot the first few times you look, but then the 2nd 3rd or 4th one you look at boom.. loot.

I think I'm going to have to do a "how to play Sahrani" video or something... there were a bunch out last time. Lots of people figured it out quick... My favorite quote was "Smoke Grenades will be traded like gold on this map"

Grafzahl said:
  • Performance... when driving through towns, my fps switch to something around 10, on open fields i have like 40-50, back in the "closed" tests, i hadnt this issue, so i think it related to the zombie-spawning, i dont have any numbers yet, but for me it looks like iam spawning nearly 100 zeds when driving into bagango... this is where it comes to my last point
Click to expand...
What server are you playing on? Lag should not be a problem
Grafzahl said:
  • To many Zeds: I dont know why, but in the last mods i tested, i had the feeling that the creators thought something like "Yeah, lets spawn 1000 zombies for each player so its more difficult". I think if you want to make the zeds more dangerous again, let them make more damage, or a higher chance for knockouts (like in dayz+).... for me it makes no difference if there are 20 or 100 zeds around, but zeds leech performance... and i hate it when you get stuck in a barack even with 1000 shots, only because there are spawning hundret of zeds in, again and again.
Just my 2 cents :)
Click to expand...

What last mods you tested? I'm not following.

On the test version there were more zombies, and they heard from further communicated better.

These zombies were GREATLY de-tuned from what we had them like before. I'll be frank, I think they're perfect.

What I think people are missing is that you don't HAVE to shoot your way out of a barrack. You can hid in the last room and wait, and they'll lose interest and go away... then you sneak out... This is the zombie apocalypse not everyone was born rambo. I don't think there will be any adjustments to zombies other than preventing them from clipping through walls a little better.
 
I'll Just run though all your points here.
  1. PsiSyndicate is your first problem, he is an alright chap, but his words are mixed. I know he loves the map, but he can say things quick of the bat and never correct him self.
    The spawn system is a pain we know. So I rewrote spawning to DayZ to cater Sahrani. The new system involves spawning the player around a town, kinda like Wasteland. So now the players shouldn't have a 2min run from the coast to the nearest town.
    nCtrZu6.jpg


    This new spawn system is indicated above, all the coloured sections are designed to spawn the player around towns and away from combat to stop the current problem of PVP spawn in the south west coast.

    This new spawn system is already running on my server EHDGaming, and DayZHorror. Once I know it is causing Zero problems, I will release a fix for the server side.

    As Nonov said, DayZ isn't about killing yourself to get a new spawn point. I may work on a clan system to allow the spawns to pick a closer location to clan mates, but that will be further down the line not a priority at the moment.
  2. FPS Problems can be down to the server, but we are changing how zombies spawn, Only time I ever get lag in a city is when a chopper flys over Corazol. So the only thing I can put that problem down to is client side lag.
  3. I find the Zeds perfect. If even I want to make them more deadly. Current Zed's in DayZ are too easy. I want them to do more damage, which they will in the next update. But right now you need to learn more about surface noise. Users are too used to cherno's ZERO noise when moving. The Zeds wont get attracted if you walk in towns. You can't run in a town on Sahrani. We made them listen. I know there is some tweaks needed for distance. But that will not make much of a difference to running in a town thinking you aren't going to be seen.
Edit: By all means though, you are free to edit as you please to make Sahrani as you think it should be. We are making this a 100% open project and anyone change anything if it doesn't suit their needs. Our plan involves a harder version of DayZ with some new features. But as you may know, you can never satisfy everyone.
 
I/We do take complaints very seriously... I went on and made sure I wasn't just being jaded or snobby.

Logged into the one of the DayZ Horror servers that has the new spawn logic, (which is an AMAZING improvement) I spawned in 6 times and had a building in eyesight every time!

On the zombies, loot, and performance, I recorded the results...

I have the record for most deaths on the Official Mod Test Server... If I'm able to kit out and survive I see no reason anyone else can't.

In 27 min. of nothing but looting Arcadia (good but not the best town) I had 90pct blood, an alice, lee enfield with 6 mags, MakSD with 4 mags, extra bandages, 4or5 food, 3 or so drink, flashlight, bino's, and was on my way to the next area with industrial where I would likely get everything else I would need to hit the woods and survive or head to a military area to get a better gun...

It was MUCH easier/faster for me to kit out on Sahrani than I do on Chernarus and I've played literally thousands of hours of Chernarus.

The only "trick" is to NOT RUN...

I can shoot one zombie, round the corner and just slow crouch walk and as long as I don't cross any of the zombie's line's of sight I'm fine.
 
Dont get me wrong, you did an amazing job, its just that i dont think that spawning 4 times more zombies then "normal" makes them more... dangerous. We were 2 guys on a airfield and spawned like 50 zombies in a small area. I mean it would be more dangerous with 20 zombies that do 500 damage per hit.

The server cant be the problem with lag, it was running at 40 fps because there were only a few guys online, i did notice that the fps drop came every time i spawned this huge amount of zombies, but you are right... i can edit the maxZombie values and go with it. I like that you support the server customization, this is what i wanted all the time... a map and mod that doesnt ban every item around in arma 2 and does its best to punish you for every mission-customization.

Nonov Urbizniz said:
Logged into the one of the DayZ Horror servers that has the new spawn logic, (which is an AMAZING improvement) I spawned in 6 times and had a building in eyesight every time!
Click to expand...


Any chance gettin this already :) Would be awesome!
 
I need to check with the players on my server and DayZHorror staff to see if everything is fine. If so I'll release the patch today.
 
Grafzahl said:
Dont get me wrong, you did an amazing job, its just that i dont think that spawning 4 times more zombies then "normal" makes them more... dangerous. We were 2 guys on a airfield and spawned like 50 zombies in a small area. I mean it would be more dangerous with 20 zombies that do 500 damage per hit.

The server cant be the problem with lag, it was running at 40 fps because there were only a few guys online, i did notice that the fps drop came every time i spawned this huge amount of zombies, but you are right... i can edit the maxZombie values and go with it. I like that you support the server customization, this is what i wanted all the time... a map and mod that doesnt ban every item around in arma 2 and does its best to punish you for every mission-customization.

Any chance gettin this already :) Would be awesome!
Click to expand...


Well keep in mind that zombies spawn as you enter places with objects (cities) which also drastically slow down any scripts that run checks, which will also cause lag... sometimes when you are looking for an answer that's all you find... instead of the actual cause... I'm not saying that this is def. the case, But without you being more clear about what server or what scripts are running, then it's hard for us to accept something we can't recreate on a vanilla install is a problem with the code.

We are playing on servers with more players and not having the same issues. The only thing that we've noticed that causes server wide lag consistently is flying any aircraft with a lot of people in it over a city we are going to disable zombie spawning by air vehicles in the next patch so that should sort that out.

Tell us exactly what you are stacking on top of the vanilla code and we can all discuss what the root cause of your problem is.
 
Process is running on a i7 Machine, Server CPU is at 40%, No "lag" or yellow/red chains... right now the only script i use on the server is self bloodbagging, but when i wrote the first post about the zombie-spawn lag, i had a vanilla sahrani installation.
 
More details on the server? Ram/Disks yellow/red chains are de-sync not lag.

But FYI EHD's server is by no means on par with an i7 and he does not have as many or as drastic issues you are having. So we are a bit confused, I'll hop on your server at some point and see how it runs for me.

We are going to be stopping zombies from spawning for Air Vehicles, as that is a known lag cause. So hopefully that will help. We will see.

The Map, the way we load buildings, just about everything is setup/in place to help ensure no lag or desync, so it's confusing when people on newer hardware are having problems.

Sahrani has smaller landmass than Cherno or Tavi, it has less objects than both, and it is lower resolution that both... bascially nothing about the map should cause lag.

We haven't strayed too far from the 1.7.5 code base so it shouldn't be anything directly in the code. We've been reviewing the actual spawn logic for zombies this week, and again it is limited to a MUCH lower number than you think. There will NEVER be more than 40 zombies/300m of map space... so it's not like it's spawning in tons of zombies once one person has entered a city. However on flyovers of Corazol for example, you are likely spawning 8+ zones at 40/zone in under 20-30 seconds... so That SHOULD solve the probs people are having...
 
OH and on the 4x more /= harder, Firstly it's not just a matter of more, although clearly we do have more. Our zombies hear and see, they are hugely detuned from what we had them in the test builds, they are much harder to lose and much easier to aggro, and they call other zombies within a certain range, so they are harder...

We do not like 1 hit knock outs or broken legs, because player skill can not affect those chances, but player skill and intelligence CAN affect whether or not they get aggro'd on to begin with... We will make them have a chance to hit harder, but no plans to reduce numbers or senses.
 
Ok, i played now a few days, "lag" doesnt happen that often anymore, even with 30/40 players... maybe my pc had some problems, i dont know... even the zombiespawns are ok, as long as you have a sd weapon ^^

So i change my mind, the mod is great as it is, and i like that you dont ban everything right from the start... the admin should have the freedom to choose what the players can use and what not... this mod seems perfect for me, so many free areas to build on, so many weapons and tools to work with.

The last thing that i now want is the new spawnpoint-system, i joined dayzhorror #1 and #2 and had so much better spawnpoints. Spawnpoints are a gamechanger, and even if your update isnt completly ready, please just give us the new spanpoints :-/
 
Eventually I think you'll find that the zombie are actually too easy... so long as there are 3-4 objects you can hide behind or in, and then sneak to w/o being seen. It just adds time to your loot runs right now. I can kit out in just about any city or town on any map in less than 10 min, because I just run. On Sahrani that same process takes ~20 min.

I've actually recorded 3 sessions of play where I fresh spawn, go into a city, creep around till I find a gun. Shoot and run to get the entire town riled up, then just hide in a bush and sneak away... it even makes it "easier" in some ways, since with this technique you can basically get all the zombies roaming slow in one area while you go and loot the rest of the town.

REALLY AWESOME to hear your problems are all cleared up and you won't believe the crap Seven is working on for the next release, We also picked up another 3d modeller who is going to exclusively work on in game DayZ Content (Sherman and our other modeller are both focused on the buildings for A1/A2 conversion)

WOW and you've taken over the #2 most populated server slot! Congrats man. I'll hop on at some point and try to get some time logged on the server!
 
One thing i think this map would work awesome with, and would push it reeeeealy fast: Houses!

I think thats why Origins is so popular, because you have a save place to go to. I mean i wouldnt do the 3 level-stages shit and i wouldnt make it so easy to build a house, but a simple house-model that can only be opened by the PlayerUID that build it. WOW!

I would keep it very simple: Use a Storagebox for all the Building-Materials, and when there are enough materials inside the box, you get a scrollwheel-Action to transform the StorageBox into a house.

I know you have a lot of features on your todo-list, maybe i could help you with it. Right now iam already deep in your code :D
 
I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but we will literally NEVER do that.

We are discussing an alternative that is less "I bought my play space"... we DO NOT like:

1. Safe Zones
2. Combination Locks
3. Protected Areas
4. GUID Locked ANYTHING

I was approached a while back by Epoch about them using Sahrani so they will surely include features like that. But our core design scheme is Gritty and HARD. NOTHING is safe, and you can't relax for a minute.

We will be allowing for a crazy amount of stuff to be built for, in, and around, your camp... but we're not putting locks on the doors...

As the host of a public hive, I miss knowing people are waking up and all their shit is gone.
 
Call me crazy, But I like the fact of spawning down in the desert area, and making my way to the other "continent" through the gauntlet, and the transition between landscapes is great. Once you find yourself up north and away from the chaos in the desert.
 
Yeah I actually do understand that, it makes it a LOT like traditional DayZ which was the intention, crazy coast, high yield north. But we found the first couple days on the full servers pretty disturbing lol... between the zombies and people with guns and axes it was pretty hard to actually make it north lol.

We like the idea of more diverse spawns, we are going to be changing the spawning system again soon again.
 
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